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| Interview with Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati |
1929 Interview by Professor Suthers of Ohio University
Professor Suthers: The Bhagavad-Gita accepts the doctrine of transmigration of the soul. How does this relate to
the Vaisnava philosophy?
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Srila Prabhupada: Srimad Bhagavad-Gita cannot be separated from the Vaisnava
philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam fully reveals the true import of the doctrine of the Bhagavad-Gita which is
reincarnation of the soul. Christianity has refused to acknowledge the principle of reincarnation and
transmigration of the soul on the alleged grounds that if it is accepted then humanity will not restrain their sinful
propensities. To the contrary they will indulge in sinful vices unrestrictedly in their present life in expectation of
being able to redeem themselves of all reactions in their future lives. But Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad
Bhagavatam have neutralized this viewpoint in principle by the means of a much more comprehensive and
scientific, philosophical understanding emphasizing the urgent necessity of ardently commencing and culturing
loving devotion to God with our intelligence even in our present human life without wasting a single moment on
any other frivolous and useless pursuits.
If we do not accept the doctrine of reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, then we will be unable to go
beyond the conception of believing we are our physical bodies. Thus we will be consumed by gross materialism
and subject to the perpetual revolving in the ocean of material existence know as life and death.
Although most Christians do not believe in reincarnation and transmigration, many of the intellectual giants of the
Christian world have exhibited acceptance of this reality. Origen has stated thus: "Is it not more in conformity
with reason that every soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a physical body in accordance to its
rewards and past activities?" Goethe also has remarked: "I am sure that I, such as you see me here, have lived a
thousand times and I will have to come again another thousand times."
Even Jesus Christ himself reveals he was knowledgeable about transmigration of the soul and reincarnation as is
verified in the Bible in the book of St. Mathew, chapter 17, verses 12 and 13 where we find Jesus saying, "Verily I
say unto you that Elijah has already come and they recognize him not; but have done with him whatever they
wanted. Likewise the son of man shall suffer also due to them." Then the disciples could understand that Jesus
was in fact referring to John the Baptist as being the reincarnation of Elijah.
What the Greeks called metempsychosis is called transmigration in the English language and in bygone eras was
known and accepted as reality in Egypt as well as Greece. Introspective and reflective scholars have reasoned
that the apostles of Jesus Christ failing to understand and subsequently to reconcile their previous conclusions
regarding the doctrine of transmigration were compelled to discard it. Yet not a single rationalist among the
Christian orthodoxy has been able to refute reincarnation and transmigration on the basis of logic and sound
reasoning; contrarily most of the Christian intellectuals have had to admit it. Herodotus, Pindar, Plato, Socrates
etc. have all accepted it.
The soul being immortal, where does it go at the moment of death and from where does it come from to enter the
fetus? Aldous Huxley, the illustrious 19th century scientist has written in his religious treatise Evolution and Ethics
that: "None but the very hasty will reject reincarnation on the grounds of inherent absurdity. Like the doctrine of
evolution itself, that of transmigration of the soul has its root in the world of reality and it may claim such support
as the great argument of analogy is capable of supplying.
Professor Lutloski has said, "I cannot give up my conviction of a previous existence before my birth and I have the
certainty to be born again after my death until I have assimilated all human experiences, having been many times
male and female, wealthy and poor, free and enslaved; generally having experienced all conditions of human
existence." But the transmigration theories of the 17th and 18th centuries like Francisus Mercurius Helmont,
Leichtenbourg, Lessing, Herder, Schopenhauer in Europe and also of Jalaluddin Rumi of the Sufi sect in Persia, or
the Theosophists and the Rosicrucians as well as the Nyaya philosophy of India. Those follow the aphorism that a
babies desire for mothers milk is due to the habit in a previous life. The Buddhist hypothesis of the annihilation
within matter is also assailable to by various hostile reasoning and all having their origins in inductive concepts
are incomplete and imperfect. But the information revealed in Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and the conclusions drawn
from Srimad Bhagavatam are completely perfect and unassailable.
The Bhagavad-Gita shows the way to the highest acquisition of the paramount attainment of blessedness, even
in this very lifetime. There is no need for delay in waiting for future lifetimes. Thus the Bhagavad-Gita being the
very root of the Vaisnava philosophy is thoroughly free from all delusions and misconceptions regarding the
reality of reincarnation and transmigration.
The Bhagavad-Gita and the Vedic scriptures have given a scrutinizing analysis of the mutual difference of the soul
as the sub-atomic sentience, the mind as being atomic sentience and the physical body as being gross matter.
The soul is the owner of the mind and the body. The mind and body are properties of the soul and the soul is the
sole property of paramatma the Suprasoul which is the Godhead. The Suprasoul is the casual sentience and the
jivatma the individual soul is the effectual sentience.
The soul has two bodies or distinguishing properties: one is subtle like the mind and the other is gross which
forms the external, physical body. The physical body is an aggregate of atoms composed of the five basic
elements of earth, air, water, fire and ether. The inner subtle mental body is the conductor of the outer physical
body. Our souls are conditioned being bound by conceptions of a non-spiritual nature imperfectly reflected by our
minds. Our souls are now asleep, dormant to the and inattentive to the wondrous service to the Suprasoul.
Seeing that the owner is asleep the subordinate workers being the mind and the physical body are busy with
their own self-interests. The mind in seeking to be the pseudo-controller and the physical body in seeking to
gratify the senses; instead of looking after the interest of their owner, the Suprasoul. This is called the
conditioned state of bondage.
Professor Suthers: I am truly astonished to hear from your Holiness these mysteries of the Vaisnava philosophy
and their scientific analysis with the most reasonable proofs. I never imagined that the Vaisnava philosophy
provided such excellent solutions, corroboration and elucidation to the problems that we in the western countries
perceive to be in the philosophy of India.
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Srila Prabhupada: Let us now consider how we in our conditioned state have been
put in bondage by the two distinguishing properties of the mind within and the physical body without; and how
again we may be liberated from them. The subtle mind and physical body have no properties which the soul
possesses. They are non-souls. Even in our conditioned state of bondage we are still animate, not sentient. The
mind and the physical body are connected to the mental world and the external physical world. We have yet to
envision and attain that which is beyond the body and the mind. The word jiva or jivatma refers collectively to the
soul, the mind and the body.
According to the authority of Ramanujacarya, the establisher of the Sri Sampradaya which is one of the four
authorized channels of disciplic succession as revealed in Vedic scriptures: Paramatma or the Suprasoul is indeed
a sentient body. The Suprasoul also has two bodies. The total aggregate of all living entities throughout all of
existence is the Suprasouls mental body and the physical manifestation of all material worlds in all of creation is
the Suprasouls physical body. The different parts of paramatma, the Suprasouls mental body are the jivatmas or
indiviual souls of atomic sentience.
When the jivatamas, the individual souls finally realize that they are factually an expansion of paramatma the
Suprasoul and become steady in their eternal service designated by this realization. At that time all nescience
and bondage becomes extinct. It is this contact through the further realization of loving devotional service
between paramatma and jivatma as the refuge and complete shelter and the dependence respectively that
culminates in the termination of any material conceptions of differentiation from divinity.
TOP
Professor Suthers: The Bhagavad-Gita accepts the doctrine of transmigration of the soul. How does this relate to
the Vaisnava philosophy?
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Srila Prabhupada: Srimad Bhagavad-Gita cannot be separated from the Vaisnava
philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam fully reveals the true import of the doctrine of the Bhagavad-Gita which is
reincarnation of the soul. Christianity has refused to acknowledge the principle of reincarnation and
transmigration of the soul on the alleged grounds that if it is accepted then humanity will not restrain their sinful
propensities. To the contrary they will indulge in sinful vices unrestrictedly in their present life in expectation of
being able to redeem themselves of all reactions in their future lives. But Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad
Bhagavatam have neutralized this viewpoint in principle by the means of a much more comprehensive and
scientific, philosophical understanding emphasizing the urgent necessity of ardently commencing and culturing
loving devotion to God with our intelligence even in our present human life without wasting a single moment on
any other frivolous and useless pursuits.
If we do not accept the doctrine of reincarnation and transmigration of the soul, then we will be unable to go
beyond the conception of believing we are our physical bodies. Thus we will be consumed by gross materialism
and subject to the perpetual revolving in the ocean of material existence know as life and death.
Although most Christians do not believe in reincarnation and transmigration, many of the intellectual giants of the
Christian world have exhibited acceptance of this reality. Origen has stated thus: "Is it not more in conformity
with reason that every soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a physical body in accordance to its
rewards and past activities?" Goethe also has remarked: "I am sure that I, such as you see me here, have lived a
thousand times and I will have to come again another thousand times."
Even Jesus Christ himself reveals he was knowledgeable about transmigration of the soul and reincarnation as is
verified in the Bible in the book of St. Mathew, chapter 17, verses 12 and 13 where we find Jesus saying, "Verily I
say unto you that Elijah has already come and they recognize him not; but have done with him whatever they
wanted. Likewise the son of man shall suffer also due to them." Then the disciples could understand that Jesus
was in fact referring to John the Baptist as being the reincarnation of Elijah.
What the Greeks called metempsychosis is called transmigration in the English language and in bygone eras was
known and accepted as reality in Egypt as well as Greece. Introspective and reflective scholars have reasoned
that the apostles of Jesus Christ failing to understand and subsequently to reconcile their previous conclusions
regarding the doctrine of transmigration were compelled to discard it. Yet not a single rationalist among the
Christian orthodoxy has been able to refute reincarnation and transmigration on the basis of logic and sound
reasoning; contrarily most of the Christian intellectuals have had to admit it. Herodotus, Pindar, Plato, Socrates
etc. have all accepted it.
The soul being immortal, where does it go at the moment of death and from where does it come from to enter the
fetus? Aldous Huxley, the illustrious 19th century scientist has written in his religious treatise Evolution and Ethics
that: "None but the very hasty will reject reincarnation on the grounds of inherent absurdity. Like the doctrine of
evolution itself, that of transmigration of the soul has its root in the world of reality and it may claim such support
as the great argument of analogy is capable of supplying.
Professor Lutloski has said, "I cannot give up my conviction of a previous existence before my birth and I have the
certainty to be born again after my death until I have assimilated all human experiences, having been many times
male and female, wealthy and poor, free and enslaved; generally having experienced all conditions of human
existence." But the transmigration theories of the 17th and 18th centuries like Francisus Mercurius Helmont,
Leichtenbourg, Lessing, Herder, Schopenhauer in Europe and also of Jalaluddin Rumi of the Sufi sect in Persia, or
the Theosophists and the Rosicrucians as well as the Nyaya philosophy of India. Those follow the aphorism that a
babies desire for mothers milk is due to the habit in a previous life. The Buddhist hypothesis of the annihilation
within matter is also assailable to by various hostile reasoning and all having their origins in inductive concepts
are incomplete and imperfect. But the information revealed in Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and the conclusions drawn
from Srimad Bhagavatam are completely perfect and unassailable.
The Bhagavad-Gita shows the way to the highest acquisition of the paramount attainment of blessedness, even
in this very lifetime. There is no need for delay in waiting for future lifetimes. Thus the Bhagavad-Gita being the
very root of the Vaisnava philosophy is thoroughly free from all delusions and misconceptions regarding the
reality of reincarnation and transmigration.
The Bhagavad-Gita and the Vedic scriptures have given a scrutinizing analysis of the mutual difference of the soul
as the sub-atomic sentience, the mind as being atomic sentience and the physical body as being gross matter.
The soul is the owner of the mind and the body. The mind and body are properties of the soul and the soul is the
sole property of paramatma the Suprasoul which is the Godhead. The Suprasoul is the casual sentience and the
jivatma the individual soul is the effectual sentience.
The soul has two bodies or distinguishing properties: one is subtle like the mind and the other is gross which
forms the external, physical body. The physical body is an aggregate of atoms composed of the five basic
elements of earth, air, water, fire and ether. The inner subtle mental body is the conductor of the outer physical
body. Our souls are conditioned being bound by conceptions of a non-spiritual nature imperfectly reflected by our
minds. Our souls are now asleep, dormant to the and inattentive to the wondrous service to the Suprasoul.
Seeing that the owner is asleep the subordinate workers being the mind and the physical body are busy with
their own self-interests. The mind in seeking to be the pseudo-controller and the physical body in seeking to
gratify the senses; instead of looking after the interest of their owner, the Suprasoul. This is called the
conditioned state of bondage.
Professor Suthers: I am truly astonished to hear from your Holiness these mysteries of the Vaisnava philosophy
and their scientific analysis with the most reasonable proofs. I never imagined that the Vaisnava philosophy
provided such excellent solutions, corroboration and elucidation to the problems that we in the western countries
perceive to be in the philosophy of India.
Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Srila Prabhupada: Let us now consider how we in our conditioned state have been
put in bondage by the two distinguishing properties of the mind within and the physical body without; and how
again we may be liberated from them. The subtle mind and physical body have no properties which the soul
possesses. They are non-souls. Even in our conditioned state of bondage we are still animate, not sentient. The
mind and the physical body are connected to the mental world and the external physical world. We have yet to
envision and attain that which is beyond the body and the mind. The word jiva or jivatma refers collectively to the
soul, the mind and the body.
According to the authority of Ramanujacarya, the establisher of the Sri Sampradaya which is one of the four
authorized channels of disciplic succession as revealed in Vedic scriptures: Paramatma or the Suprasoul is indeed
a sentient body. The Suprasoul also has two bodies. The total aggregate of all living entities throughout all of
existence is the Suprasouls mental body and the physical manifestation of all material worlds in all of creation is
the Suprasouls physical body. The different parts of paramatma, the Suprasouls mental body are the jivatmas or
indiviual souls of atomic sentience.
When the jivatamas, the individual souls finally realize that they are factually an expansion of paramatma the
Suprasoul and become steady in their eternal service designated by this realization. At that time all nescience
and bondage becomes extinct. It is this contact through the further realization of loving devotional service
between paramatma and jivatma as the refuge and complete shelter and the dependence respectively that
culminates in the termination of any material conceptions of differentiation from divinity.
TOP
